Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

Question

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now:

1. It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity.
2. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application.
3. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well.
4. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such).
5. Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while.
6. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery.
7. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc...

At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way.

Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net.

For Future References - these choices were already made:

• Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac
• 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such
• Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc...
• Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage.

Cheers, Adam

Answer 1

Django!

Look up the DjangoCon talks on Google/Youtube - Especially "Reusable Apps" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-S0tqpPga4)

I've been using Django for some time, after starting with Ruby/Rails. I found the Django Community easier to get into (nicer), the language documented with excellent examples, and it's modularity is awesome, especially if you're wanting to throw custom components into the mix, and not be forced to use certain things here and there.

I'm sure there are probably ways to be just as flexible with Rails or some such, but I highly encourage you to take a long look at the Django introductions, etc, at http://www.djangoproject.com/

Eugene mentioned it's now at 1.0 - and therefore will remain a stable and backward-compatible codebase well through January 2009.

Also, the automatic admin interfaces it builds are production ready, and extremely flexible.

Answer 2

Sorry, but your question is wrong. People are probably going to vote me down for this one but I want to say it anyway:

I wouldn't expect to get an objective answer! Why? That's simple:

• All Ruby advocates will tell to use Ruby.
• All Python advocates will tell to use Python.
• All PHP advocates will tell to use PHP.
• Insert additional languages here.

Got the idea?

I recommend you to try each of the languages you mentioned for yourself. At least a few days each. Afterwards you should have a much better foundation to make your final decision.

That said, I would choose Ruby (because I am a Ruby advocate).